HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-27-2012 }
* Planning and Community
cmroF. �� � • Development
February 27, 2012 - 5:00 PM
WASHINGTON Annex Conference Room 2
MINUTES
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Nancy Backus called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m. in Annexation
Conference Room No. 2, located on the second floor of Aubum City Hali, One
East Main Street, Auburn, Washington.
A. Roll Call
Chair Backus, Vice-Chair Partridge, and Member Holman were present. Aiso
present during the meeting were: Mayor Pete Lewis, Planning and Development
Director Kevin Snyder, Planning and Development ManagerElizabeth
Chamberlain, Development Services Manager Jeff Tate, Principal Planner Jeff
Dixon, Contract Economic Development Planner William Thomas, Contract
Economic Manager poug Lein and Planning and Development Secretary Tina
Kriss. Members of the public in attendance included: Councilmember Osborne,
Joannne Martin, Kurt Vogel, Gloria Taylor, Patrick Taylor, Melissa Baeth, Mickey
Marquez, and Kathy Vogel.
B. Announcements
There were no announcements.
C. Agenda Modifications
There were no agenda modifications.
II. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Minutes - February 13, 2012 (Snyder)
Councilmember Partridge moved and Councilmember
Holman seconded to approve the Planning and Community Development
Committee minutes for February 13, 2012, as written.
Motion Carried Unanimously 3-0.
III. ACTION
There were no action items.
IV DISCUSSION ITEMS
A. Amendment to Section Zoning Code 18.31.200 (Dixon)
Review amendment to Section Zoning Cocle 18.31.200 to recognize and
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address within a single code section the various architectural and site
design review standards and regulations.
Principal Planner Jeff Dixon reviewed the purpose and intent to amend the
existing zoning code section ACC 18.31.200.
Staff explained the goal is to bring uniformity in the administrative process applied
to design review processing and provide a single code section addressing the
City's different provisions for architectural and site design standards for ease of
locating and use by perspective applicants.
Mr Dixon stated this item will go before Planning Commission for
recommendation and then staff will bring this back before Committee.
Committee was supportive of these code amendments to section 18.31.200.
B. Resolution No. 4770 - Physical Address Change Recommendations (Tate)
Review proposed changes to physical addresses recommended by the City of
Auburn Addressing Committee and reviewed and approved by City Directors and
the Valley Regional Fire Authority (VRFA) AdminisVator
Pianning and Development Director Kevin Snyder• First of all I want to hand out
for the Committee a letter that we received which was dated yesterday and
officially came in to us today (stamped as received today) and let the Committee
read it.
Chair Backus: I've already read it and I don't want you to think I am ignoring you, I
have already read it.
Director Snyder• Jeff Tate, Development Services Manager, has put together a
briefing memorandum but I am going to speak more broadly First and foremost
one of the more important duties that the City has is addressing. It is an important
duty for a variety of reasons but perhaps the most important being the provision of
public safety services or emergency services for police and fire, to be
specific. Addressing is a key component of that. We have an interesting challenge
in our addressing situation because, as the Mayor said, we are a 120-year old city
so we have had addressing that has occurred for 120 years in our
community We've had street names that have changed, grown and
extended. More recerrtly, since 2008, we have newly annexed areas that were
addressed under a different set of provisions administered by King County
It is a task that we take very seriously The City has an Addressing Committee
made up from staff from al� departments and includes staff from Valley Regional
Fire Authority (VRFA). When address changes come through they are reviewed
by the Addressing Committee and recommendations are made to all department
directors; the directors all review and sign off on changes prior to going to Council.
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For the last several years, the Addressing Committee has reviewed errors or
concerns, particularly public safety concerns, and as part of our practice are trying
to consolidate those and bring them forward in a package, such as the one we will
be discussing tonight, whereby we give the Council the opportunity to discuss with
us potential changes in addressing that, again, from staffs' perspective are
believed to be necessary
We understand at the staff level that changing addresses is a disruptive action,
that it disrupts a lot of things not the least people's normal practices; in terms of
how they get maii and other day in and day out practices we have to balance that
with our issue of making sure we can provide appropriate response times for our
emergency services. This is what really guides us. There are land use
considerations and other things like that, but we give a lot of attention to and
deference to our emergency service providers in our meetings on these matters.
The items before you are actually not new to two of the three of the Committee
members because we did come to you in late 2011 and presented to you initially
on this. At that time you asked us to go out and engage with the community that
was going to be impacted by these and we did. We held three separate public
meetings and some were well attended and some were not so well intended, but
we did go out and meet with parties and get their feedback. We did take into
consideration the ideas and concerns and, in some instances, we made some
slight adjustments. Tonight is for discussion purposes only Our goal is to take
feedback from the Committee and answer your questions and see if we can
address any issues relating to questions you might have, or concerns or a lack of
clarity, and we will respond appropriately The final point in this I think is important
is that we have very much taken our time at the staff level which is why we came
to you in August and why we are only coming back to you in February because we
did not rush through this. I asked Jeff and his team to double check all of these
items to make sure we had considered all the options and to make sure, knowing
that we will cause some disruption to folks, that we were doing that only because
ultimately there was a determination that we needed to address that because of
the need to ensure appropriate response time for our emergency services. I can
assure you that we have done that. With that, we have laid out some background
information for you and would be happy to answer any questions about that or the
specific addresses.
Chair Backus: Does Committee have any questions?
Member Holman: You have obviously read the letter that was presented today,
and, are you prepared to answer some of these questions in the letter
Director Snyder• Yes.
Member Holman: I would like to hear that.
Director Snyder• The particular area in question, and Jeff will help me if I don't
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answer it fully or need to provide more information, but the particular area in
question is a unique area within our community It is an area with a certain street
design that does not easily fit into our definitions. There has been a practice on
these types of unique street situations that we designate them as a Piace. When
we do that we apply the addressing guidelines based on a Place designation. It
does not mean it fully aligns with the City's addressing gridlines. One of the things
we have to do is we have to sometimes work to address some disconnect
between the physical situation on the ground and the addressing gridlines on a
map. Sometimes they are not fully squared up and in this particular situation we
don't have that fully squared up situation, but we have an approach that our
emergency service providers feel very strongly is necessary in order for them to
assure the appropriate emergency response times.
Chair Backus: Kevin in that case, because obviously I'm pretty familiar with that
area, so it is a T, arid these addresses are aIl part of the T, correct; and so one
unique situation noted in Mrs. Martin's letter is that there are houses on the same
side of the street that have both odd and even numbering. How do we reconcile
that, that while logic tells us we have odds on one side and even on the other how
do we have four houses on one side of the street that have odd and even
numbers?
Development Services Manager Jeff Tate: Sure, first of all the existing condition
that is out there we have a little bit of odd and even mix as well. One of the things
that is a practice when you get into these situations where you have a road that is
shaped like a T or L, you go down the road with odd and even (odd on one side
and even on the other) and when you get to the end you move in those directions.
If you are even on one side of the street you continue to move even as you
navigate along that side of the T (indicating moving forward directionally down a
street on the left side then going to the left side of the�; if you are odd on one
side you continue to move odd as you navigate along the T (indicating moving
forward directionally down a street on the right side then going to the right side of
the T). This gives emergency responders the ability to predict that if they're
responding to an odd or even address they know whether to take a right or left
without having to try to look for signs that might point you directions where there
are no signs. In the case of a T there is little more of a challenge, especially with
our fire responders, when they have bigger vehicles that when they get to the end
of a location if they've made a wrong decision the time it takes to go the other
direction.
Chair Backus: Any other questions in the letter or any other issues that you would
like to address in the letter?
Director Snyder• I think another thing we want to be clear about is there is a
reference to two other proposals in the letter The first proposal was the original
proposal brought before this Committee. It was also the proposal we pre§ented at
the community meetings as well as the proposal before you this evening. VVhen
we got feedback from the community we did go back and look at
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altematives. Staff did not deem that a new proposal, but we were looking at
possible approaches. The Addressing Committee went through those and looked
at them, but ultimately reached a consensus and brought that back to the directors
who also reached a consensus that the original proposal was the more
appropriate proposal.
Chair Backus: And that was the proposal being the difference between Place and
Court and Place is now being identified as the recommended Iocation?
Director Snyder• Yes.
Chair Backus: I know that there are people that have come tonight from the
neighborhood and thank you all for coming out. I believe some of you may be
interested in speaking and I will allow for you to speak if you would like. We just
need you to come to the table one at a 6me providing your name and address for
the record. I believe you have all signed in right? So you're legal to talk.
Patrick Taylor, 1812 4th Place NE, Auburn, Washington: As you enter 4th PL NE
you pass Wayne Osborne's property and another house on the other side which is
still on 4th so no fire truck should be turning around if those houses are buming. If
you turn down and come to where I am, about 100 to 115 feet, you come to fouc
houses which sit on an easement approximately 120 feet long. If the fire truck
pulls up there he has to back up anyway or he will drive around on properiy and
the yard and the next people's property and go out. There's no other exit through
here. Once you get to that point, 120 feet withstanding, two houses to the right
and two houses to the left and Iiterally its 80 feet from the center of that road down
to my house and the other way is about 60 to 70 feet. If you go down that road
and you are a policeman or fireman you should be able to see the problem without
any difficulty and with no addresses on homes. They have been doing that for
more than 40 years that I know of. I don't understand what the real concern is,
safety wise, because once you turn onto 4th you got two houses right where you
pull up, and if you sit right there you will see all five houses that you are Iooking at
the numbers at. Literally, if you had a garden hose you could spray all five of
them. There's just no distance there. You more than likely get lost going around
4th and end up in Kip Herren's property That would be worse than ours as he has
a drive through and comes back out. I don't know if the fire Vucks could make it,
but I don't know why you are even bothering with our addresses because the
situation is you go down 4th Place, ali 4 of those houses are on 4th Place;there
are five at that end and Councilmen Wayne's house at the end and I don't know
who owns the other If you get lost on 4th Place, I don't want to go on a trip with
you.
Director Snyder• Maybe some additional comments to add just to help the
conversation. When we talked with police and fire, we are referencing fire a lot
right now; police is an important component too. We certainly can't and will not
speak for them, but they do have certain operational considerations and
procedures that they do make their decisions based on. I want to assure the
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Committee and the public that they do.go off of those standards. One of the other
things they imparted to us that both of these agencies have legacy issues where
many of their employees have been in their posiUons for many years and know
the City really "like the back of their hand" They have new employees coming
through that don't and they are very much mindful that they need to have as much
consistency in the addressing built in as possible. One of the things they do now
for their new employees is they have to actualiy go through and learn the
addressing of the City so there is a operati�nal concern about having things as
close to their standards as possible.
Kurt Vogel, 1820 4th Place NE, Auburn, Washington: About the logistical
concerns and stuff for the fire departmerrt, I was with the fire department for quite
a few years and no matter what you do or how you break it up, iYs going to be an
anomaly, and iYs not going to be perfect; no matter how you set it up it won't be
perfect. If it isn't going to be pertect why change it? tt works the way it is. IYs not
going to be perfect after you change it; iYs going to be confusing to a lot of the
guys and iYs no more confusing nbw than it will be if iYs done.
Chair Backus: Thank you.
Joanne Martin, 1818 4th Place NE: I am kind of amazed in some ways because I
know the people have been preparing this proposal have worked really hard about
this, and I appreciate the work they do on behalf of the City However, 'rf this is a
unique situation and you are just moving to another unique situation whaYs not to
say that someone else is not going to come in to say this doesn't work anymore
and we will change it one more time. I don't know how a lot of the intricacies work
so I looked at my tax things today and it comes to 102nd SE. ThaYs whai it says.
Chair Backus: Your tax assessment?
Joanne Martin: Yes, 102nd. So it's like we're sNll, the whole area is still all messed
up, and I appreciate you trying to get us all together, but this is a very small
neighborhood. Now we've had fire out there, we've had police out there and the
medics out there and to my knowledge they have not had any difficulty in finding
the houses on our street. And I can remember when I firs[ moved to Auburn a long
time ago, not as long as some people here, a long time ago Cugini Florist used to
like to hire firemen because they were so good at knowing the addresses. Since
my neighbors' son was a fireperson, he told me they had to memorize all of the
addresses way back when. Now I donY know what is wrong with having to
memorize any more addresses now. I know the place is bigger, but we have more
firemen and they can spend more time in training;there are a lot of games they
can play in memorqing these addresses. I'm thinking that can still keep up with
what is hip, using your brains. This is a very small neighborhood that realiy
doesn't need change. Now, if my neighbor over there isn't going to get up and
speak, Wayne Osborne, I want to use his post card as an example. Did you sign
in?
Page 6 of 24
Chair Backus: As a private citizen you have to sign in.
Joaanne Martin: So, I just would hope you would see that this is a unique situation
and you are asking us to change it to a unique s'duation, and I would respectfully
request that you eliminate I think iYs line 15 through 21 on you� little resoluHon
thing. You just_kind.of.draw a line through it and exempt us from this address
change. It would be different 'rf we were in a large area but this is small. Thank
you.
Wayne Osborne, 1806 4th Place NE, Auburn, 98002: In 1993, the City changed
my address from 1809 to 1806; I was odd to start with. They are proposing that I
go back to an odd number 1833. From 1993 until the current date this is an
example of some of the things I get in the mail and it comes to my house, anything
addressed to a resident I usually get two; one for 1806 and one for 1809. You may
notice that one came from the City Political ads are exactly the same thing, I get
two. I have been trying to wo�lc with the different groups because like we said we
are unique and probably going to be unique if you go through with this address
change and I just don't see any reason going from unique to unique. I know you
have had two proposals out and I don't linow if anyone spoke to that or not.
Chair Backus: (Chair Backus Clarified) that was the difference between Place and
Court and the Court wasn't really a proposal.
Mr Osborne stated in the last letter[from the City] it stated it was going to be a
Court and we never got a subsequent letter saying they were going back to the
original. That was one thing that I noted and I think it is important because it
shows that within the City they aren't even sure which way to go with this.
Director Snyder Let me, if I can address that?
Chair Backus: Please.
Director Snyder• We did senii out a letter explaining the concept. In part to elicit
community feedback about that; but uttimately it was the Addres_sing
Committee that feft that going to Court would actually create more problems than
sticking with Place. It was ultimately an idea that did not gain any traction,
particuiarly with our fire and police staff.
Wayne Osborne: So, I am going to ask, spec'rficaliy as the other citizens of that
area,just to leave us as we are. I know as a fireman in Seattle that one thing we
were required to do was to do address drills on a constant and continuing basis
and they do that today, and I think what ever they come up with they would have
to do address drills. Thank you very much.
Chair Backus: Kevin, specific feedback from the VRFA the members that sit on
the addressing team; I know you have addressed that this change is more in line
with the standard, albeit off from the standard, but what were the comments from
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the VRFA regarding this area specifically if there were any?
Director Snyder• The Addressing Committee is staffed by Assistant Fire Chief Jeff
Stottlemyre who reviewed it and Jeff's feeiing, I'm paraphrasing, that aithough not
a perfect solution, this is the appropriate solution to address adequate response
times. It was then reviewed by the VRFA administrator Eric Robertson and, in his
capacity, again, he and all the other City Directors reviewed these and he
concurred wfth Mr Stottlemyer's recommendation on that matter
Development Services Manager Jeff Tate:The only thing I would add to that
specific comment is focused on the logic when you are in the truck while in the
response mode; that what the proposal here offers is something that is logical and
makes sense to what they are used to, even though it doesn't fully conform to
some of the standards as you turn down that road as you would expect.
Melissa Baeth,1815 4th Place NE: Just reiterating, it really doesn't make sense if
you hit 4th Place; there are only five houses down that street, you can literally see
every one of them. If you can't figure out what is going on if you turn down there,
there are some serious issues going on that has nothing to do with our addressing
and odds and evens on the same side don't make any sense any more than
whaYs already there makes sense. This just seems like a colossal waste of time,
and we aren't having any issues, and I don't see that we will be having issues with
this in the future left as is, so I would really appreciate it if you would leave it as
is. I would really not like to do this again further down the road when you come up
with another thing that makes more sense to you then, because you are not really
fixing it riow. Thank you.
Vice-Chair Partridge: Outside of public safety what benefit is this?
Mayor Lewis: Oh, yes, I understand.
Vice-Chair Partridge: You understand my comment. Outside of public safety, what
issue is there to the City? Is this purely a public safety issue which you referred
to?
Director Snyder• The short answer is yes. The primary guiding concern in our
addressing always starts with public safety
Mayor Lewis: Well ok, you asked for something that takes more than, than just the
planning department to answer so now you are going to get the long answer
Vice-Chair Partridge: My follow up question I was asking for primarily was, this
item came to light when I first joined the Council. Since that time do we have
documented public safety issues in regards to these 100 or so addresses? So do
we have anything that was documented that we missed a call, were late to, and if
so can you provide that information?
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Mayor Lewis:There is documentation.
Mayor Lewis: Madam Chair, can I address Committee?
Chair Backus: Please.
Mayor Lewis: There are a bunch of things, this is my fault. A few years ago, more
than a few years now, there was a developer in Lakeland that we found out had
incorrectly addressed a large area. We went through a big exercise to correct that
which had been done. I looked at this and said, "Tell me the addressing in the City
of Auburn is correct" The immediate response from all the departments was; oh
no, there is a lot worse stuff all over this town because the town was built not only
in King County but across the tops of other towns that used to be here so the
addressing in lots of areas was totally screwed up. I then put together the
directors, the directors are that Committee. I said to the directors we are going to
do this once and we are going to do it with public safety being the driving concem
and when this thing gets done I want every director's signature in blood lhat this is
the correct thing to do and public safety is the main goal. You will always go back
to the public safety and fire side of this to make dead sure that this is correct, and
you will report to me on a regular basis and you will not implement this until iYs all
done, which is why we have this huge list across the City and �ats of irate people.
In every meeting that we went to I knew somebody on that street and I know
almost everyone on this street. I have wanted an out on this deal for quite some
time and regardless of what you decide to do you must do it knowing that fire and
police directly have told you that this is what they want to have done, and the
biggest reason with their concern is everything is now changing; changing over to
GIS and the legacy we talked about, over half the police department has changed
in the last five years. There was a huge group of people that were hired in the 80s
and they are gone. The same things are now happening with the fire authority; iYs
the legacy of the department which is mainly Aubum but now that is changing
over as well. I just went to their annual awards ceremony and there were about
four to five that are now gone just in this last year They are really being specific
about this; that if we do something that is not in keeping with that than we are
specifically making a statement that getting the best advise from police and fire
(not planners, not public works people or anyone else) but from cops and fre, that
we are going to go against their advise specifically That is what is making ft really
hard for me because I like all these people. I also like the peaple over on H Street,
K Street and the other areas and I have known them for over 30 years. Again I
started off with the statement that I "kicked the hornets nest" in this case. This is
fire and police employees that lead this effort and all the directors, every single
director• Human Resources, Information Services, Legal, Planning, Public Works,
and Poiice. Everyone needed to sign off on this that they are in agreement;that
this is the best option that they had before this ever got to you before it ever went
out to a public meeting. So, given that, this is where were at.
Vice-Chair Partridge: I asked within that question, do we have some
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documentation of public safety issues directly related to these 142 referenced
here?
Mayor Lewis: As part of the record you can puil out that as part of the original stuff
that police and fire brought forth as far as how many instances we have had in the
areas of concern. We do not have that in front of us but that is part of the book.
Vice-Chair Partridge: I am assuming that there may be some areas that pose a
higher degree of problems than othec areas?
Mayor Lewis: Here's the problem that officials keep telling me; iYs not about the
people who work here, iYs not about today Take that out all together, which if we
really did that there wouldn't really be a reason for us to have a job because if we
take people out of the equation it makes it real simple, something I try to get
across to people. The bottom line is it isn't about the people who live there today,
but about the people who will be living there in 20 years and iYs not about the
problems that were having today but the problems we might have tomorrow The
areas change, the people chamge and the populations change; the reason I say
this is because they have been hammering that into me as we have these
discussions with fire and police.
Vice-Chair Partridge: I asked within.the areas of concern how many of those were
pubiic complaints or concerns verses officer or fire complaints. Meaning the officer
says "I had trouble finding something" but in terms of the individual owner the
perception is there is a problem.
Mayor Lewis: I think all the stuff we have came from fire and police.
Vice-Chair Partridge: So we don't have any public complaints that I called and
someone didn't find us? Do we have any complaints that people felt unsafe in
regards to this?
Mayor Lewis: I think it was police and fire saying it took this long to get to this
place. I believe that is what the records show.
Vice-Chair Partridge: From my perception, and my family has owned a house near
this area since the 1960s, is when they moved over there, you can imagine the
immensity, when I look at this, I see something happening very convenient, good
for us, easier for us, but very disruptive on the other end. So people who feel
disrupted have to feel the same sense of need you feel, if they don't.
Mayor Lewis: I'm sorry, let me revise that, same sense of need that you as a
Councilmembers are being told by your fire and police, not just me. It is your fire
and police that are telling you directly through this that this is what they are
saying. ThaYs been the hard part of this, every one of these people; I mean I don't
like messing with anyone's address, but when you do whatever you do, you do it
with the sure knowledge of what you have been told by your fire and police
Page 10 of 24
people.
Chair Backus: There is the possibility that if, not saying which way I am leaning on
this at all as I am just giving you an issue that, if there were a fire in one of these
houses, and we didn't change the addressing, and there was a problem with
response, knowing we did not change the addresses, there could be legal issues
for the City [Mayor Lewis agreed.]
Director Snyder• Police and fire's perspective in the conversations we have had
with them is they measure performance in two ways; the response time and the
other is what they are able to perform when they are able to respond. If they are
inhibited on the first item because they can't get there fast enough it affects the
second item. It is very important to them the response time is done as quickly as
possible and that there be no (for lack of tietter word) obstructions whether they
be physical or logical. They take that very seriously
Chair Backus: Has GIS plugged in an address and you see where it takes you on
these? I know the ones we had up on Lakeland took us up to Enumclaw Plateau,
obviously iYs not going to be an issue like that I don't believe with these addresses
but have we done something like that as a City to see where we would go, do they
show up in the correct location as they are currently?
Director Snyder• A random sampling of Google,just Google.
Chair Backus: If I were to Google 1818 4th Place NE would I get there or would it
stop me before I get there?
Director Snyder• I do not know specific to that address; we have done some
random sampling and haven't encountered any issues, but I would hesitate in
making that assumption.
Micky Marquez, 1815 4th Place NE, Auburn, Washington: I am a City of Auburn
employee, storm water and vegetation. We are almost required to, to know
addresses around the City, so, as a City employee i know full well when my boss
gives me a location to go to I know exactly where I am going. Now to
change gears here; on Labor Day weekend, it was a Monday morning, around
9:00—9�15 a.m. I witnessed a prowler in my vehicle. I responded in a manner to
try to get this individual out, contacted my wife, she came out the front door with
phone in hand, and I requested her to call 911 She did, the individual got out of
my car, and I assisted him to the ground and the police department was there in
less than three minutes; incredible response time. The two officers that showed up
were both young officers; I know this because I socialize with the officers at
Maintenance and Operations a lot, so I know who is new and who is not, so I
know the veteran guys as well. Very professional and the response time was
incredible. They took him into custody, and we did our papenvork and they were
gone. When it comes to response time, they were excellent; everyone in the
neighborhood commented on how fast they got there, and we have had to call
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police and fire before in that location and they always show up with a fast
response time.
Chair Backus: If I recall fire there a few years ago (four or five or more).
Mr Marquez: I myself can only attest to what i witness and I have called, I have
called the police department several times and had them show up, and assisted
the police department a few weeks back, and we had a prowler running through
our yard, and I assisted K9 in directing where they needed to go; they show up
and we are there to help and they shbw up quick. Thank you.
Vice-Chair Partridge: First of all, are there options? Is this all or nothing or are
there other municipalities that have different options on how they implement
changes like this within their city?
Chair Backus: The Mayor asked that a committee be put together and find all the
anomalies in the City and correct them. It is the Council's responsibility to
determine if we implement all of it, if we implement half, if we phase it in or
whatever we want to do it. It is the Council's decision on how we want to do it, so
it isn't an all or nothing.
Vice-Chair Partridge: I was asking, I guess, if there is any examples of Councils
that have implemented all or nothing or worked in sections.
Mayor Lewis: There are cities that are trying to do that now because of the
annexations, but they are looking to us for what we are doing. We were the first
ones to do annexations. If you remember back when the county set up a bonus,
so to speak, for annexations, Auburn was the first City in the State to do them, first
city in King County
Director Snyder• I have had the opportunity to work in several other cities, and I
would say Auburn's addressing process is the most formal and most considerate
process I have been involved in. Often times it has been chief of Police, myself
and a fire chief sitting around asking each other what do you want to do, I don't
know, what do you want to do. I want to echo what the Mayor is saying. I think we
are somewhat of a standard-bearer in this process: We take this very seriously,
and we don't try to be disruptive unintentionally, and we do it with public safety
considerations at the forefront.
[Mayor Lewis stated prior to ten years ago the addressing system was done by
the fire department.]
Chair Backus: Back in 1968, our family had just moved in by Game Farm Park,
and we had an emergency called in; they went to the cul-de-sac and missed us
completely We were immediately readdressed.
Mayor Lewis: The frustrating part about this is, regardless of how we might not
Page 12 of 24
want to see people disrupted, it is fire and police that are the ones that are
bringing all this forward.
Vice-Chair Partridge: Is there a reason why fire and police are not here today?
Mayor Lewis: We did not ask them to be here.
Vice-Chair Partridge: Are there any municipalities that had any reimbursement to
the expenses that the people going through this change?
Mayor Lewis: We lead that as well. A reimbursement cost program has been set
up and we also have a two-year program at the post office to keep the mail
coming for both the old and new acJdress. VVe were being asked to identify our
system to Rerrton, Kirkland and a couple others. That was set with prior changes
and is still in effect with these changes. That is part of what we talked about when
we went to the neighborhood meetings.
Vice-Chair Partridge: Do we know how much that is?
Director Snyder• I don't believe our risk management has a specific number but
evaluate on a case by case basis. Mayor Lewis stated it was for actual costs.
Chair Backus: For business cards, stationary and postage to mail letters to credit
card companies?
Director Snyder• Correct.
Mayor Lewis: The City does that as well. The City notifies all the credit agencies.
Development Services Manager Tate: There is a list of approximately 100
different agencies, organizations both public and private, nonprofit, utility
purveyors, county, post office, that we send out the notification to.
Chair Backus: This doesn't mean you will have the answer for this, but in the case
of Mr Osborne who received two pieces of mail for each address residence
mailing, and this happens to come from the City of Auburn, its been well past the
two years time period the post office is suppose to deliver mail to a prior
address. How is that still happening; why is the post office still delivering two
addresses at the same location?
Mayor Lewis: Do we think we have an answer for the United States Postal
Service?
Chair Backus: That address doesn't even exist any longer
Director Snyder• Staff has talked with the post office on these issues but I have to
echo the Mayor that unfortunately once it goes into their system we have no other
Page 13 of 24
control other than picking up the phone and making repeated requests and
inquiries as to resoluGon.
Mayor Lewis: It is easier to get mail from two weeks and older to a new address
than to stop.
Chair Backus: In this case this is a City mailing and the City posts these
addresses, we can fix that, correct?
Director Snyder, Mayor Lewis: Yes, agree.
Mayor Lewis: The City has so many databases, and, if it came out of Bravo, it
could have come out of the parks department or three or four different places.
Chair Backus: Would there be a way, once an address changes regardless of
which one is made, is there a way to track that residence or businesses so
duplicate mailings don't get sent from the City
Mayor Lewis:That is a really good point; is to include in our communications to
residenUbusinesses, the question: if ybu are getting duplicate mailings please be
sure to let us know. In many contexts, for example the museum, unfortunately
they do some things on their own even though it is a partnership.
Chair Backus: They would still need to be mindful of expenses and if they are
doing a duplicate mail.
Mayor Lewis: I think that is a good point; in future business no matter how this
turns out that we should be doing something from time to time with the mailings to
include the statement to residenVbusinesses to inform us of any duplicate
mailings. That is another good benefit of this discussion, good point.
Melissa Baeth, 18515 4th Place NE, Auburn, Washington: You are talking about it
as a big safety issue, that we have to renumber these five houses, but the street is
still the same; the numbering isn't going to be consistent with how fire and police
are supposed to be finding it anyway, so if you are just changing these numbers to
another thing that doesn't make sense, how does that make sense? I don't see
how that improves response time for emergencies if thaYs what you are stuck on
because if thaYs what it was I woutd have no argument with this whatsoever; I
would not have an issue with it, but you are not improving anything,just changing
it.
Mayor Lewis: I think we just need to bring police and fire in because that is their
point,which is why we are stuck in this; it is a specific statement from them that is
bringing this to us.
Melissa Baeth: Correct and I can see with some of them, but in our particular area
and our particular case this doesn't rtiake sense.
Page 14 of 24
Mayor Lewis:Again, maybe just bringing fire and police back ta this meeting.
Director Snyder• I want to assure the residents that the representatives from fire
and police plus Addressing Committee members and all department directors
reviewed the addresses; betieve me keeping the directors in a room for three to
four hours and going through each address is a tough task, but we did that with all
the directors and the Committee. It did include each address, not a broad brush
look, but site by site.
Chair Backus: It most likely won't be the very next meeting (March 8th) because
thaYs going to be at 4:00 p.m. (a short meeting due to Committee members
having other commitments that evening and some members being out of town on
the original day the meeting was to be scheduled March 12th), but we can discuss
this on March 26th at 5:00 p.m. and pian on having the fire authority and the
police representation here for that meeting.
Member Holman: Do I understand.that what you are trying to achieve with fire and
police, and what they are trying to achieve, is a consistent strategy to be applied
over the whole City not just this one neighborhood?
Mayor Lewis: Agree.
Member Holman: So that when I have a rookie under my wing and am training
him how to memorize addresses then this neighborhood is treated the same as a
neighb�rhood across town; I am sure there is more than one T street and I know
there is certainly more than one Place in town, but it would be numbered in the
same, or similar pattern.
Director Snyder• I think Jeff Tate used the term logical before, retative to the fire
and police operationai procedures.
Member Holman: There is nothing logical about addresses. I was a cop for 31
years and I had to memorize addresses.
Director Snyder• I understand.
Mayor Lewis: One house on one street.
Member Holman: That being said, a Place is different than a Street and which way
an Avenue runs, north, south, east, west, you have that generally across the City
I will tell you that most cops under the age of 30 now have a Global Positioning
System (GPS) in their car and use it.
Mayor Lewis: That is one of the problems that cops are telling us is that iYs all
going to GPS. You can't count on that memory book any longer
Page 15 of 24
Director Snyder• IYs only as good as the input.
Vice-Chair Partridge: One point I would like make as you prepare for fire and
police, at least from my stand point is that there is logical and then there's
common sense. When I talk about responses and the fire department says there
going to be five extra seconds because of the conditions, I think to some peaple
that would not be common sense, that might not be an issue as far as pubiic
perception of that. But I would like to see some measurement of what all this
means. You've done all the hard work and identified ali the problem areas and I'm
sure that on a scale from 1-10 there are areas that are riskier in terms of our
response time. There's one that I saw in Fiere that nothing changed but A to
1 Unit A to Unit 1
Chair Backus: No, there is more to them than that.
Director.Snyder• Councilmember if I couid interject for one second. I would be
careful because we've had these conversations with our emergency service
providers.
Chair Backus: Right.
Director Snyder• They don't prioritize risk. There is risk and they look at ft that you
need to address the situation, so they don't grade the risk factors. They looked at
these from their perspective as emergency service providers.
Chair Backus: Right.
Director Snyder• They made a determination from their perspective and
operational practices and procedures and they recommended that these changes
needed to be made but they don't grade the risk.
Vice-Chair Partridge: i'm telling you, I agree with you, thank you I mean thaYs the
point I am making, that you are talking about, that as we move frbm that logical,
the work they have done from a togical sense has to be made to be common
sense. That is the part of understanding of what this really means, and there are
people that are going to be really disrupted by this change and 1, you just heard
right, and what I Ioved hearing was the fact that if it was an area of public safety
like a child is going to get help, verses not get help and seconds counted, I don't
know if anybody on this room would say'livhatever it costs" I guess thaYs what I
am understanding what their logic, if you look at item number 22 the only thing
that changed, 3305 M PL SE. I think it is 3305 M PL SE#1 I mean there actually
isn't a unit number iYs just blank where they put a unit#1 there. I am assuming
they are going to be at that building. There's an area where there would be a unit
#1 and unit#2 in the new one, but iYs getting down to some pretty minor changes
that someone's going to go back and cliange their records as a result of that, that
I noticed. I didn't look through all 120 or 145 of them to figure out how deep the
Ievei of change was, but from a common sense standpoint, it would help me to
Page 16 of 24
know when I ask people to disrupt their lives to do this, that it is going to make
sense from an emergency response standpoint of what that means, and they may
have to identify that a little bit, and someone said they were here in two minutes
and thaYs fast enough for them, thaYs a common sense perspective, if it was a
half an hour someone may have felt differern.
Mayor Lewis: LeYs do something else here; we have a full book of ali the things
that have been done. All of these we held, all the testimony Let's give that to all
three of the Council Members.
Chair Backus: And I can tell you right now thie police and the fire authority are not
going to come in here and teli you to change something for common sense. Their
focus is going to be on the logical and the safety They are not going to say, iYs ok
to blur the line for common sense, thaYs not their role. That may be our role, but it
is not their roll, nor will I ever ask them to make that choice.
Mayor Lewis: I do need to make one more comment too, to bring in the fire
authority and police department, we're not gaing to have an open-ended thing
going on with fire and poiice.
Chair Backus: Sure.
Mayor Lewis:They are in a difficult spot just tike staff always is. Most of the time
they aren't in a position where they can say anything back and I am not going to
put them in that position.
Chair Backus: No.
Mayor Lewis: Questions from Council are just fine because you are the individuals
who are going to make the decision.
Chair Backus: Right, there will not be any"do you understand the common
sense'; thaYs our decision to make, and we are going to be asking the fire
authority nor the police to go off of inessage.
Mayor Lewis: However, I would like part of.this conversation given to fire and
police so that they heard all the; actually I want this all transcribed so they have all
the individual testimony so that fire and police have that before they come here. I
just want to make really sure that they have that before they come into this room
so that they know what the concerns are.
Director Snyder• Yes.
Mayor Lewis: And they know what they have heard as far as when people arrive
and how quickly and all that stuff;they aren't ever going to tell you that an
additional five seconds is going to make a difference because that to an
emergency tech or a police officer is a long momerrt, an eternity, and they are
Page 17 of 24
never going to say thaYs ok. I've heard this conversation for the last year so thaYs
never going to be alright as long as they are concerned.
Chair Backus: Kevin and Jeff wondering about, we have a very concerned
neighborhood thaYs obviously here tonight in support of not changing, but what
other commeMs did you hear and how much support for the other areas that you
have listed for changes?
Director Snyder• I would say the primary concems we've heard, particularly we
have with the residential community that was impacted, and I would say that the
neighborhood that was represerrted tonight was definitely well represerrted and
gave input. We had other folks that came and I won't say that people were
universally happy about it but I think other parts of the City were ok. Our next
meeting was with the commercial community; I would say that the commercial
community had similar sentiments that you are hearing tonight. We get that. At the
same time, for ail the same reasons that we have gone back over, police and fire
along with the rest of the staff involved reached the same conclusions that they
need to be changed. I think that those parties are begrudgingly accepting of it and
understand the purpose of it. Our third meeting was another residential meeting
and we had one attendee who had been at our previous meeting, I believe.
Development Services Manager Jeff Tate: We had one that was at the previous
meeting and one that showed up late.
Chair Backus: Was it because they.had a bad address?
Director Snyder• So, just to summarize, I think the themes of life, safety, public
emergency response goes with the over riding conversation area. We heard very
strongiy from different parties about the disrupting affect; the Mayor has pointed
out that we Vied to put measures into place to somewhat reduce the impact. I'm
not going to say iYs going to take away the errtire impact; that wouid be
inappropriate for me to say We are trying to mitigate it if we can, including the
possibility of claims for appropriate ekpenses and I just have to say we get it. I
can't say I would feet any different if it was my address, but we are also trying to
balance the needs here and police and fire, emergency response is an important
issue. Even if it doesn't seem like an important issue now, the Mayor said it well, a
five second difference can mean a lot to those who are service providers, and
they aren't willing to give up on that.
Chair Backus: So one more question as John said, some of the only change that
was made is going from A to#1 or#2. Do we not do A, B, C, D in the City, is that
the standard?
Development Services Manager Tate: Right, there's the, in our City addressing
guideiines, there is a hierarchy of different street naming to building numbering
and then there is a secondary numbering tier, and some of these might help to
look at kind of on the ground to understand the context because some of those
Page 18 of 24
changes where you see part of a duplex or a fourplex and some of them are, like,
the one you pointed out (3305), it doesn't have a Unit. The duplex is 3305 and
3307 so a duplex should be both 3305 Unit A and B so that first Unit dossn't look
like there is much of a change other than adding; you are puiling up that second
Unit in that dupiex and getting that one right and changing the whole building at
the same time to make it right.
Mayor Lewis: One of the really difficult things is that we have apartments buildings
where the letters may go across (from building to building) and then back this way
(diagonal and back diagonal again). We had systems that were brought in from
almost every shape and size you want to have.
Chair Backus: ThaYs what I was just wondering because like, 3515 K Street SE A
moving to 3515 K Street SE #1
Development Services Manager Tate: I look at that, and when I am looking at the
tabular way that it is displayed and I see the same thing. When I look at the map
and 1 see you enter into a cul-de-sac or you have six dupiexes, and some have
unit 1 and 2 and some have unit A and B, and some have two different numbers
assigned to the units in the same building, that is what becomes confusing when
you look at the erttire cul-de-sac and every building is done differently So, in the
individual it does look like it is a very little change in that little community of six or
seven duplexes but getting the whole neighborhood conforming under one format
makes sense.
Chair Backus: ThaYs a good point.
Vice-Chair Partridge: One thing I love about the Committee's structure is this is
where we get to gut things out, and I may ask a question like wanting to hear
some comments and what does it mean..lf palice and fire cannot address that, all
I did was ask the question. If they say they cannot answer, I am totally fine with
it. I just want to make sure that if I can ask any question, this is where we do
it. That was my point. The second one was that I rolled with police and fire for
seven years and responded to these condltions and saw how things worked and
when they called me it was usually on the Vuorst situations and wasn't the easiest
of situations. So, I understand the impact and know what it means to be there
when something really critical is coming down. But I take the other, when I am
here, I'm going to ask the questions that help me better understand the whote
aspect of what that means. I think thaYs where a lot of people live. If you can't go
there, then the Council gets to discern that, it will be important for us know what
type of variance we can make in applying those decisions. Maybe thaYs the bigger
part where I was going with that, is can we, do we have the variance to allow this
area to not be impacted by this change?
Chair Backus: I was just going to say we ask the Council to determine what part of
this we have to.
Page 19 of 24
Mayor Lewis: Totally up to Council.
Vice-Chair Partridge: Perfect, and thaYs getting down to that so I think that as we
continue to review this, I want to know, what I am going to be after is how much of
this are we doing because it is a good time to get it done verses if we are only
doing it, it will really be severe; obviously it wasn't an emergency enough when I
started in Council. We're still talking about it after all this time.
Mayor Lewis: No, no thaYs not the case either, I asked them not to move this.
�ce-Chair Partridge: Well.
Mayor Lewis:Just so I can finish?
Vice-Chair Partridge: Alright.
Mayor Lewis: I asked them not to'bring this back until they were absolutely sure,
and they were only doing those things that they flat knew had to be done. So I
forced; matter of fact they brought it back to me twice, and I said I don't think you
are done yet; don't bring this to me until ybu are absolutely positive of what has to
be done, and what we don't have to do, but make sure it is going to be once and
not again because nobody is going to want to go through this a second time
anywhere in this City, ever, so be right before you bring it; causing it to stretch out
for quite a long time. The reasoning was police and fire were wanting to do
something, but I was asking the directors and all the people involved - and there
was a Iarge group of people involved in this - being absolutely sure as they
possibly could before this came badc to the Committees; and thaYs when we
started sending it out for the public, but we had a number of ineetings with a lot of
testimony bringing it up to this stage, which they should be getting anyway I
would also like, because iYs the only area that anyone is coming back for, is that
anything they would like to supply in writing prior to the next meeting they ought to
do that as well so the police and fire departments can see that as well.
Chair Backus: Did you all hear that as far as providing any letters or anything in
writing prior to that March 26th meeting so that police department and VRFA
would have availability of that in the packet that we provide to them?
Director Snyder• If I might Chair Backus?
Mayor Lewis: Well prior to.
Chair Backus: Yea, within the next week.
Director Snyder• Certainly, and I would ask this for consistency, and make sure it
is going to one place, if they could go through Jeff Tate?
Mayor Lewis: LeYs get all the testimony, all the meetings, all this stuff because
Page 20 of 24
there is a big book of it.
Director Snyder• The other thing I just want you to understand, what the Mayor, in
response to his request, we went out and rechecked all addresses and made the
Addressing Committee go back through each of them and discuss them, making
sure they were of like mind, still so in response to the Mayor's instruction, we took
that very seriously which again thaYs why the long time frame between the last
Gme we taiked about this and this time because we were methodical, if you will,
because we do want to make sure we are getting this right.
Vice-Chair Partridge: I appreciate Kevin, when you jumped in there and concluded
with, when this is all done, the point that I heard that was made, is that, we will
probably never have a perfect system. Meaning, everything being, I mean I know
we are trying to get as close as we can.
Mayor Lewis:Actually, this is going to be as best as anybody can physically figure
out how to do. Probably if it was perfect; again, there wouldn't be any need for any
of this at any time.
Vice-Chair Partridge: That is what I am saying, that we have taken our time to get
this done, that as we begin now to roll out all the hard work, we take our time to
get it rolied out right and appropriately; and then probably, I am assuming that
there are some things that we're just going to have to live with, things that are not
as perfect as we can make them, but they're just going to be the way they
are. And police and fire will have these addresses down there until they're
changed, we'll know where they're at. I mean they're probably already working
these in terms of their study as we improve them and make it work out. I think the
good thing this time, is iYs been identified', and that we know we have our spots
that need to be improved. How we implement that as the Chair was saying, we
have to, thaYs up to us in this room.
Director Snyder• As the Mayor indicated this is, an ongoing process and our goal
is on an annual basis we will bring to you those necessary address changes for
your consideration as we continue to try to do corrective action to the best of our
ability to address.
Mayor Lewis: One of the things is when someone builds something new and then
they put a different address on it than even what the City has given them and had
another one after we started this, a whole subdivision and they did it wrong and
we had to make them go back and do it over again.
Chair Backus: If I understand correctly this is a comprehensive list of all existing?
Director Snyder• Correct.
Chair Backus: Address changes; its not, if you come back within a year, its not
going to say oops we forgot this pocket.
Page 21 of 24
Director Snyder• Right.
Chair Backus: We've either annexed in a new area and there are addresses that
need to be corrected for that reason or there has been a new development that
addressed wrong to begin with.
Director Snyder• I want to assure you and Jeff knows this very well because I kind
of beat on him a little about it, for new development we are going to wo�lc
extremely hard to make sure that those mistakes you reference do not get
made. That is a legacy issue of the past that will not continue to the best of our
ability because that is something we control. There are things that happened in
the past, in the annexation areas for example, we didn't control that and we will
have to deal with that as a repercussion issue.
Chair Backus: Right.
Director Snyder• But what we will control, we will control.
Mayor Lewis: The only other issues that there might be is how many Pikes are
there in this town? Some future Council might say we have had enough of all of
the Pike Streets. There's another one that I can think of off hand, and we have
joked about it, I and Harvey I street, M Street, Harvey; and sooner or later
somebody is going to have to do something about that. But in this generation with
all the things that we could find there is no expectation on my part of coming back
here except if we finds things like new development or annexed areas.
Chair Backus: Or in building on a large piece of property that has one address but
is part of another
Director Snyder� As I said i feel very confident in previous reference to VRFA's
establishment, going forward we've done a much better job, but there are things in
the City prior to that, as the Mayor referenced, we may have to come back where
there are errors and we will try to minimize those. I think the process in place, the
book you see here, the formal process we have in place, the Addressing
Committee and the department directors all that intended to make sure these
issues are not part of the future. There are some legacy issues that we will deal
with, and we're trying to make sure that those are minimal as possible to avoid the
disruption that comes with this.
Micky Marquez, 1815 4th Place NE: Mr Mayor was assisting in helping me make
my point. He brought up Pike Street. Pike Street is an extension that goes, well,
from one end to the other and iYs quite long. This question is for Kevin and Jeff,
how many 4th Places in down, 4th Place NE.
Development Services Manager Tate: I think there is, I'm quite confident there is
only one of them.
Page 22 of 24
Micky Marquez: And that is our residence. If we are unique and if there is just one
4th Place NE and if we are grandfathered into that and the City does any
development off of 4th, which I doubt wouid happen, because everything off 4th
from Main to the river has already been established, and I don't believe there is
any more construction that can happen. There won't be, I'm just making that
assumption, another 4th Place wFiere the acldress being off the1800 btock that we
are, or even nearby, there we go, we're back in that unique. We're not a Pike,
we're not a M Street, or a Harvey road that extends eight or 14 blocks;we are
unique 4th Place NE and there is no other, so thaYs just my point, thank you.
Chair Backus: Ok.
Director Snyder• We will bring that back March 26th.
Chair Backus: if you have any letters you would like included in the record that will
be provided to the police department and VRFA for the meeting we have on
March 26th if you could have those to Jeff by next week. That way they're
included in the packet of information that they receive and that we as Council
receive. Thank you very much for coming. Were there any other questions on the
addressing?
[Committee indicated there were not.]
C. Director's Report (Snyder)
Director Snyder updated Committee on the new laundry facility coming into town
that is going to be a job creator for us. The facility has been the opportunity to
get a Federal Tax Credit that expires later this year and we sat down with them
and put a timeline together and through Development Services Manager Tate and
Planning Manager Chamberlain and folks from public works and others we are
exceeding their timelines. They are going to be well positloned to take advantage
of this tax credit by the timeline. They had thought about splitting the project into
various parts but the City assured them they did not need to do so as it would
have costs them more money and more time and §o they are able to be well
positioned to start building very soon.
The similar situation is present for.the Auto Zone store next to the Pick-Quick
restaurant. We are now two and a half weeks ahead of them and they are very
pleased with our performance. Similarly sftuation with our new Coastal Farm and
Ranch. They have started demolition and the building plans have been issued
and are on target to open up in May
D PCDC Status Matrix (Snyder)
Committee had no questions regarding changes in the matrix.
V ADJOURNMENT
Page 23 of 24
There being no further busiriess to come before the Planning and Community
Development Committee, Chair Backus adjourned the meeting at 625.
APPROVED THIS �� day of / i�ti°��� , 2012.
ancy cb s - Chair
Tina Kriss- lanning and Development
Secretary
Page 24 of 24